Numerical values not matching with experimental one
Dear Xansys members,
I am currently working on ANSYS Workbench v15 to validate a numerical model
through simulation of indentation process of a pipe using an indenter.
After debugging my model, I got results (force vs displacement of the
indenter) that does not match with the experimental results (numerical one
are more than 15 time lower than the experimental one)
I tried to simulate the process of others researcher and I got the same
problem.
The model is composed of:
1- - Indenter with “Standard Steel” with a Young Modulus of 20000 GPa
(to simulate a rigid indenter)
2- - Pipe with x52 steel using multi linear isotropic hardening
I got every time a warning message in French (I have ansys in French) that
says that the large displacement are on and may invalidate some of the
supports.
I Tried a lot of ways but i still got weak values of forces.
I am really grateful for the help you give to ansys users.
The error file: (I know that increasing sub steps resolve distortion
problems, but even if I do it I still have a very low values of forces)
/COM,ANSYS RELEASE 15.0.7 UP20140420 09:58:21 03/28/2016
*** WARNING *** CP = 1.014 TIME= 09:58:23
Element shape checking is currently inactive. Issue SHPP,ON or
SHPP,WARN to reactivate, if desired.
*** WARNING *** CP = 1.076 TIME= 09:58:23
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least
one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by
material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 91.339 TIME= 10:00:13
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least
one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by
material may not be available.
*** ERROR *** CP = 156.282 TIME= 10:01:21
One or more elements have become highly distorted. Excessive
distortion of elements is usually a symptom indicating the need for
corrective action elsewhere. Try incrementing the load more slowly
(increase the number of substeps or decrease the time step size). You may
need to improve your mesh to obtain elements with better aspect ratios.
Also consider the behavior of materials, contact pairs, and/or constraint
equations. If this message appears in the first iteration of first
substep, be sure to perform element shape checking.
*** WARNING *** CP = 6902.482 TIME= 11:47:23
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least
one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by
material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7163.145 TIME= 11:51:24
Contact element 4395 (real ID 3) status changes abruptly from contact
(with target element 7104) -> no-contact.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7396.881 TIME= 11:55:36
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least
one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by
material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7481.777 TIME= 11:57:11
During this session the elapsed time exceeds the CPU time by 101%.
Often this indicates either a lack of physical memory (RAM) required
to efficiently handle this simulation or it indicates a particularly
slow hard drive configuration. This simulation can be expected to run
faster on identical hardware if additional RAM or a faster hard drive
configuration is made available. For more details, please see the
ANSYS Performance Guide which is part of the ANSYS Help system.
Dear ?????
Hmmm
You say you got results? The error message below might indicate you have unconverged results.
What is the load, substep number on the results file? Something like 999999?
That could be why your "results" are different - your model got to 6% of the load and you got distorted elements. For a problem like yours you just about have to mesh it knowing what the final shape will be like to avoid this error. Or try some adaptive meshing routine (either automatic or manua).
-----Original Message-----
From: Xansys-temp [mailto:xansys-temp-bounces@xansystest.info] On Behalf Of Elaidi ZAHIRI
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 11:21 AM
To: xansys-temp@xansystest.info
Subject: [Xansys] Numerical values not matching with experimental one
Dear Xansys members,
I am currently working on ANSYS Workbench v15 to validate a numerical model through simulation of indentation process of a pipe using an indenter.
After debugging my model, I got results (force vs displacement of the
indenter) that does not match with the experimental results (numerical one are more than 15 time lower than the experimental one)
I tried to simulate the process of others researcher and I got the same problem.
The model is composed of:
1- - Indenter with “Standard Steel” with a Young Modulus of 20000 GPa
(to simulate a rigid indenter)
2- - Pipe with x52 steel using multi linear isotropic hardening
I got every time a warning message in French (I have ansys in French) that says that the large displacement are on and may invalidate some of the supports.
I Tried a lot of ways but i still got weak values of forces.
I am really grateful for the help you give to ansys users.
The error file: (I know that increasing sub steps resolve distortion problems, but even if I do it I still have a very low values of forces)
/COM,ANSYS RELEASE 15.0.7 UP20140420 09:58:21 03/28/2016
*** WARNING *** CP = 1.014 TIME= 09:58:23
Element shape checking is currently inactive. Issue SHPP,ON or SHPP,WARN to reactivate, if desired.
*** WARNING *** CP = 1.076 TIME= 09:58:23
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 91.339 TIME= 10:00:13
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by material may not be available.
*** ERROR *** CP = 156.282 TIME= 10:01:21
One or more elements have become highly distorted. Excessive distortion of elements is usually a symptom indicating the need for corrective action elsewhere. Try incrementing the load more slowly (increase the number of substeps or decrease the time step size). You may
need to improve your mesh to obtain elements with better aspect ratios.
Also consider the behavior of materials, contact pairs, and/or constraint
equations. If this message appears in the first iteration of first
substep, be sure to perform element shape checking.
*** WARNING *** CP = 6902.482 TIME= 11:47:23
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7163.145 TIME= 11:51:24
Contact element 4395 (real ID 3) status changes abruptly from contact (with target element 7104) -> no-contact.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7396.881 TIME= 11:55:36
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7481.777 TIME= 11:57:11
During this session the elapsed time exceeds the CPU time by 101%.
Often this indicates either a lack of physical memory (RAM) required to efficiently handle this simulation or it indicates a particularly slow hard drive configuration. This simulation can be expected to run faster on identical hardware if additional RAM or a faster hard drive configuration is made available. For more details, please see the ANSYS Performance Guide which is part of the ANSYS Help system.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Xansys-temp [mailto:xansys-temp-bounces@xansystest.info] On Behalf Of Elaidi ZAHIRI
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 11:21 AM
To: xansys-temp@xansystest.info
Subject: [Xansys] Numerical values not matching with experimental one
Dear Xansys members,
I am currently working on ANSYS Workbench v15 to validate a numerical model through simulation of indentation process of a pipe using an indenter.
After debugging my model, I got results (force vs displacement of the
indenter) that does not match with the experimental results (numerical one are more than 15 time lower than the experimental one)
I tried to simulate the process of others researcher and I got the same problem.
The model is composed of:
1- - Indenter with “Standard Steel” with a Young Modulus of 20000 GPa
(to simulate a rigid indenter)
2- - Pipe with x52 steel using multi linear isotropic hardening
I got every time a warning message in French (I have ansys in French) that says that the large displacement are on and may invalidate some of the supports.
I Tried a lot of ways but i still got weak values of forces.
I am really grateful for the help you give to ansys users.
The error file: (I know that increasing sub steps resolve distortion problems, but even if I do it I still have a very low values of forces)
/COM,ANSYS RELEASE 15.0.7 UP20140420 09:58:21 03/28/2016
*** WARNING *** CP = 1.014 TIME= 09:58:23
Element shape checking is currently inactive. Issue SHPP,ON or SHPP,WARN to reactivate, if desired.
*** WARNING *** CP = 1.076 TIME= 09:58:23
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 91.339 TIME= 10:00:13
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by material may not be available.
*** ERROR *** CP = 156.282 TIME= 10:01:21
One or more elements have become highly distorted. Excessive distortion of elements is usually a symptom indicating the need for corrective action elsewhere. Try incrementing the load more slowly (increase the number of substeps or decrease the time step size). You may
need to improve your mesh to obtain elements with better aspect ratios.
Also consider the behavior of materials, contact pairs, and/or constraint
equations. If this message appears in the first iteration of first
substep, be sure to perform element shape checking.
*** WARNING *** CP = 6902.482 TIME= 11:47:23
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7163.145 TIME= 11:51:24
Contact element 4395 (real ID 3) status changes abruptly from contact (with target element 7104) -> no-contact.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7396.881 TIME= 11:55:36
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7481.777 TIME= 11:57:11
During this session the elapsed time exceeds the CPU time by 101%.
Often this indicates either a lack of physical memory (RAM) required to efficiently handle this simulation or it indicates a particularly slow hard drive configuration. This simulation can be expected to run faster on identical hardware if additional RAM or a faster hard drive configuration is made available. For more details, please see the ANSYS Performance Guide which is part of the ANSYS Help system.
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Dear Zahiri,
What I did once is to model the indent using Joints (in Ansys Workbench).
And Joints use the special purpose elements MPC184.
Using this you must turn on large displacements.
Further, use a kinematic hardening model to get large amount of plastic
deformations, and a small time step.
Best regards
Hervandil Morosini Sant'Anna
Engenheiro de Equipamentos
Petrobras - AB-RE/ES/TIE - Chave: cji2
Tel: (21) 2166-4013 / Rota: 706-4013
e-mail: hmsantanna@petrobras.com.br
De: Elaidi ZAHIRI zahiri@enset-media.ac.ma
Para: xansys-temp@xansystest.info,
Data: 28/03/2016 12:23
Assunto: [Xansys] Numerical values not matching with experimental one
Enviado por: "Xansys-temp" xansys-temp-bounces@xansystest.info
Dear Xansys members,
I am currently working on ANSYS Workbench v15 to validate a numerical model
through simulation of indentation process of a pipe using an indenter.
After debugging my model, I got results (force vs displacement of the
indenter) that does not match with the experimental results (numerical one
are more than 15 time lower than the experimental one)
I tried to simulate the process of others researcher and I got the same
problem.
The model is composed of:
1- - Indenter with “Standard Steel” with a Young Modulus of 20000 GPa
(to simulate a rigid indenter)
2- - Pipe with x52 steel using multi linear isotropic hardening
I got every time a warning message in French (I have ansys in French) that
says that the large displacement are on and may invalidate some of the
supports.
I Tried a lot of ways but i still got weak values of forces.
I am really grateful for the help you give to ansys users.
The error file: (I know that increasing sub steps resolve distortion
problems, but even if I do it I still have a very low values of forces)
/COM,ANSYS RELEASE 15.0.7 UP20140420 09:58:21 03/28/2016
*** WARNING *** CP = 1.014 TIME= 09:58:23
Element shape checking is currently inactive. Issue SHPP,ON or
SHPP,WARN to reactivate, if desired.
*** WARNING *** CP = 1.076 TIME= 09:58:23
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least
one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by
material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 91.339 TIME= 10:00:13
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least
one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by
material may not be available.
*** ERROR *** CP = 156.282 TIME= 10:01:21
One or more elements have become highly distorted. Excessive
distortion of elements is usually a symptom indicating the need for
corrective action elsewhere. Try incrementing the load more slowly
(increase the number of substeps or decrease the time step size). You may
need to improve your mesh to obtain elements with better aspect ratios.
Also consider the behavior of materials, contact pairs, and/or constraint
equations. If this message appears in the first iteration of first
substep, be sure to perform element shape checking.
*** WARNING *** CP = 6902.482 TIME= 11:47:23
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least
one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by
material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7163.145 TIME= 11:51:24
Contact element 4395 (real ID 3) status changes abruptly from contact
(with target element 7104) -> no-contact.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7396.881 TIME= 11:55:36
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least
one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by
material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7481.777 TIME= 11:57:11
During this session the elapsed time exceeds the CPU time by 101%.
Often this indicates either a lack of physical memory (RAM) required
to efficiently handle this simulation or it indicates a particularly
slow hard drive configuration. This simulation can be expected to run
faster on identical hardware if additional RAM or a faster hard drive
configuration is made available. For more details, please see the
ANSYS Performance Guide which is part of the ANSYS Help system.
Xansys-temp mailing list
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"The sender of this message is responsible for its content and addressing. The receiver shall take proper care of it. Without due authorization, the publication, reproduction, distribution or the performance of any other action not conforming to Petrobras System internal policies and procedures is forbidden and liable to disciplinary, civil or criminal sanctions."
"El emisor de este mensaje es responsable por su contenido y direccionamiento. Cabe al destinatario darle el tratamiento adecuado. Sin la debida autorización, su divulgación, reproducción, distribución o cualquier otra acción no conforme a las normas internas del Sistema Petrobras están prohibidas y serán pasibles de sanción disciplinaria, civil y penal."
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hassan.jishi@kustar.ac.ae
On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:45 PM, "hmsantanna@petrobras.com.br" hmsantanna@petrobras.com.br wrote:
Dear Zahiri,
What I did once is to model the indent using Joints (in Ansys Workbench).
And Joints use the special purpose elements MPC184.
Using this you must turn on large displacements.
Further, use a kinematic hardening model to get large amount of plastic
deformations, and a small time step.
Best regards
Hervandil Morosini Sant'Anna
Engenheiro de Equipamentos
Petrobras - AB-RE/ES/TIE - Chave: cji2
Tel: (21) 2166-4013 / Rota: 706-4013
e-mail: hmsantanna@petrobras.com.br
De: Elaidi ZAHIRI zahiri@enset-media.ac.ma
Para: xansys-temp@xansystest.info,
Data: 28/03/2016 12:23
Assunto: [Xansys] Numerical values not matching with experimental one
Enviado por: "Xansys-temp" xansys-temp-bounces@xansystest.info
Dear Xansys members,
I am currently working on ANSYS Workbench v15 to validate a numerical model
through simulation of indentation process of a pipe using an indenter.
After debugging my model, I got results (force vs displacement of the
indenter) that does not match with the experimental results (numerical one
are more than 15 time lower than the experimental one)
I tried to simulate the process of others researcher and I got the same
problem.
The model is composed of:
1- - Indenter with “Standard Steel” with a Young Modulus of 20000 GPa
(to simulate a rigid indenter)
2- - Pipe with x52 steel using multi linear isotropic hardening
I got every time a warning message in French (I have ansys in French) that
says that the large displacement are on and may invalidate some of the
supports.
I Tried a lot of ways but i still got weak values of forces.
I am really grateful for the help you give to ansys users.
The error file: (I know that increasing sub steps resolve distortion
problems, but even if I do it I still have a very low values of forces)
/COM,ANSYS RELEASE 15.0.7 UP20140420 09:58:21 03/28/2016
*** WARNING *** CP = 1.014 TIME= 09:58:23
Element shape checking is currently inactive. Issue SHPP,ON or
SHPP,WARN to reactivate, if desired.
*** WARNING *** CP = 1.076 TIME= 09:58:23
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least
one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by
material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 91.339 TIME= 10:00:13
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least
one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by
material may not be available.
*** ERROR *** CP = 156.282 TIME= 10:01:21
One or more elements have become highly distorted. Excessive
distortion of elements is usually a symptom indicating the need for
corrective action elsewhere. Try incrementing the load more slowly
(increase the number of substeps or decrease the time step size). You may
need to improve your mesh to obtain elements with better aspect ratios.
Also consider the behavior of materials, contact pairs, and/or constraint
equations. If this message appears in the first iteration of first
substep, be sure to perform element shape checking.
*** WARNING *** CP = 6902.482 TIME= 11:47:23
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least
one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by
material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7163.145 TIME= 11:51:24
Contact element 4395 (real ID 3) status changes abruptly from contact
(with target element 7104) -> no-contact.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7396.881 TIME= 11:55:36
Material number 4 (used by element 4312 ) should normally have at least
one MP or one TB type command associated with it. Output of energy by
material may not be available.
*** WARNING *** CP = 7481.777 TIME= 11:57:11
During this session the elapsed time exceeds the CPU time by 101%.
Often this indicates either a lack of physical memory (RAM) required
to efficiently handle this simulation or it indicates a particularly
slow hard drive configuration. This simulation can be expected to run
faster on identical hardware if additional RAM or a faster hard drive
configuration is made available. For more details, please see the
ANSYS Performance Guide which is part of the ANSYS Help system.
Xansys-temp mailing list
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"O emitente desta mensagem é responsável por seu conteúdo e endereçamento. Cabe ao destinatário cuidar quanto ao tratamento adequado. Sem a devida autorização, a divulgação, a reprodução, a distribuição ou qualquer outra ação em desconformidade com as normas internas do Sistema Petrobras são proibidas e passíveis de sanção disciplinar, cível e criminal."
"The sender of this message is responsible for its content and addressing. The receiver shall take proper care of it. Without due authorization, the publication, reproduction, distribution or the performance of any other action not conforming to Petrobras System internal policies and procedures is forbidden and liable to disciplinary, civil or criminal sanctions."
"El emisor de este mensaje es responsable por su contenido y direccionamiento. Cabe al destinatario darle el tratamiento adecuado. Sin la debida autorización, su divulgación, reproducción, distribución o cualquier otra acción no conforme a las normas internas del Sistema Petrobras están prohibidas y serán pasibles de sanción disciplinaria, civil y penal."
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On 28/03/2016 19:50, Hassan Ziad Jishi wrote:
As much as I liked this forum, is there a way to reduce the number of perceptively irrelevant email content?
Currently the only way is to set Digest mode on your account which will
mean you get a single email per day containing all the posts for the
day. You can set it your self or send a request to the moderators who
can set it for you.
Martin Liddle, Tynemouth Computer Services,
Chesterfield, Derbyshire, UK.
www.tynecomp.co.uk