Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
Folks,
I'm using v2022R2 Mechanical and running a 3D response spectrum analysis. From what I can tell, the Mechanical GUI does not support stress linearization for spectrum analyses. But if I load the RST in APDL, I can linearize stresses like normal. Are there any concerns about doing this in APDL? In other words, are the features unavailable in Mechanical because of some valid reason? And therefore, should I refrain from post-processing spectrum linearized stress in APDL?
Matt Ridzon, PE, MSME
Sr. Engineering Analyst
Email matt@prime-engineer.commailto:matt@prime-engineer.com
Mail 266 Main St, Burlington, VT 05401
Web www.prime-engineer.comhttp://www.prime-engineer.com/
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This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary, privileged and/or private information. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity designated above. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify the sender immediately, and delete the message and any attachments. Any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this message or any attachments by an individual or entity other than the intended recipient is prohibited.
Hi Matt,
Keep in mind that a response spectrum or random vibration analysis is
statistical in nature. The stresses you get are RMSS statistical peak
estimates throughout the frequency range. The SRSS process removes the
sign, so any principal or von Mises stresses aren't really valid either.
ANSYS uses a Segalman approximation to estimate von Mises. It would be
really questionable to use a linearized stress for anything.
Joseph T Metrisin
Structures Lead
Florida Turbine Technologies, Inc
1701 Military Tr. Suite 110 | Jupiter, FL 33458 USA
+1 (561) 427-6346 Office | +1 (772) 834-4156 Mobile
Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com
Visit our website: https://kratosdefense.com
Confidentiality Note:
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intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
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you received this communication in error, please delete the message and
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-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Ridzon, PE via Xansys xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2024 3:26 PM
To: xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE Matt@prime-engineer.com
Subject: [External] - [Xansys] Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
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Folks,
I'm using v2022R2 Mechanical and running a 3D response spectrum analysis.
From what I can tell, the Mechanical GUI does not support stress
linearization for spectrum analyses. But if I load the RST in APDL, I can
linearize stresses like normal. Are there any concerns about doing this in
APDL? In other words, are the features unavailable in Mechanical because of
some valid reason? And therefore, should I refrain from post-processing
spectrum linearized stress in APDL?
Matt Ridzon, PE, MSME
Sr. Engineering Analyst
Email matt@prime-engineer.commailto:matt@prime-engineer.com
Mail 266 Main St, Burlington, VT 05401
Web
https://urldefense.com/v3/http://www.prime-engineer.com;!!KM6X6ZXWXVtZMQ
!ZVFL3CwFiZEYpUsPfH-zdbhsg_tMwGfNnIpiNsu3UgPykbia-VWBQFOpy7pXygYX6H2pVFMY9zs
ucnFawVsOzcLmULJfKPPLkw$
<https://urldefense.com/v3/http://www.prime-engineer.com/;!!KM6X6ZXWXVtZ
MQ!ZVFL3CwFiZEYpUsPfH-zdbhsg_tMwGfNnIpiNsu3UgPykbia-VWBQFOpy7pXygYX6H2pVFMY9
zsucnFawVsOzcLmULKntZteaw$ >
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Thanks to everyone that responded. This was helpful information. Knowing the little bit I knew, I had a hunch those would be your responses.
-Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Metrisin Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 7:31 AM
To: XANSYS Mailing List Home xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE Matt@prime-engineer.com
Subject: RE: [External] - [Xansys] Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
Hi Matt,
Keep in mind that a response spectrum or random vibration analysis is
statistical in nature. The stresses you get are RMSS statistical peak
estimates throughout the frequency range. The SRSS process removes the
sign, so any principal or von Mises stresses aren't really valid either.
ANSYS uses a Segalman approximation to estimate von Mises. It would be
really questionable to use a linearized stress for anything.
Joseph T Metrisin
Structures Lead
Florida Turbine Technologies, Inc
1701 Military Tr. Suite 110 | Jupiter, FL 33458 USA
+1 (561) 427-6346 Office | +1 (772) 834-4156 Mobile
Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com
Visit our website: https://kratosdefense.com
Confidentiality Note:
The information contained in this transmission and any attachments are
proprietary and may be privileged, intended only for the use of the
individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If
you received this communication in error, please delete the message and
immediately notify the sender via the contact information listed above.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Ridzon, PE via Xansys xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2024 3:26 PM
To: xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE Matt@prime-engineer.com
Subject: [External] - [Xansys] Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
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Folks,
I'm using v2022R2 Mechanical and running a 3D response spectrum analysis.
From what I can tell, the Mechanical GUI does not support stress
linearization for spectrum analyses. But if I load the RST in APDL, I can
linearize stresses like normal. Are there any concerns about doing this in
APDL? In other words, are the features unavailable in Mechanical because of
some valid reason? And therefore, should I refrain from post-processing
spectrum linearized stress in APDL?
Matt Ridzon, PE, MSME
Sr. Engineering Analyst
Email matt@prime-engineer.commailto:matt@prime-engineer.com
Mail 266 Main St, Burlington, VT 05401
Web
https://urldefense.com/v3/http://www.prime-engineer.com;!!KM6X6ZXWXVtZMQ
!ZVFL3CwFiZEYpUsPfH-zdbhsg_tMwGfNnIpiNsu3UgPykbia-VWBQFOpy7pXygYX6H2pVFMY9zs
ucnFawVsOzcLmULJfKPPLkw$
<https://urldefense.com/v3/http://www.prime-engineer.com/;!!KM6X6ZXWXVtZ
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zsucnFawVsOzcLmULKntZteaw$ >
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Folks, I had another question come to mind on this same topic...
Has anyone in the email list run into this issue while doing ASME Boiler Code qualifications? If signs are lost during spectrum analysis, then how does one combine the spectrum results with other service loadings to thereby calculate stress intensity for code qualifications? I can retrieve Sx, Sy, Sz, Sxy, Syz, Szx from the spectrum analysis and sum them with other non-seismic service load results. But the spectrum results have no sign(s).
-Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Ridzon, PE via Xansys xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 8:04 AM
To: Joe Metrisin Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com; XANSYS Mailing List Home xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE Matt@prime-engineer.com
Subject: [Xansys] Re: [External] - Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
Thanks to everyone that responded. This was helpful information. Knowing the little bit I knew, I had a hunch those would be your responses.
-Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Metrisin Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 7:31 AM
To: XANSYS Mailing List Home xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE Matt@prime-engineer.com
Subject: RE: [External] - [Xansys] Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
Hi Matt,
Keep in mind that a response spectrum or random vibration analysis is statistical in nature. The stresses you get are RMSS statistical peak estimates throughout the frequency range. The SRSS process removes the sign, so any principal or von Mises stresses aren't really valid either.
ANSYS uses a Segalman approximation to estimate von Mises. It would be really questionable to use a linearized stress for anything.
Joseph T Metrisin
Structures Lead
Florida Turbine Technologies, Inc
1701 Military Tr. Suite 110 | Jupiter, FL 33458 USA
+1 (561) 427-6346 Office | +1 (772) 834-4156 Mobile
Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com
Visit our website: https://kratosdefense.com
Confidentiality Note:
The information contained in this transmission and any attachments are proprietary and may be privileged, intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you received this communication in error, please delete the message and immediately notify the sender via the contact information listed above.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Ridzon, PE via Xansys xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2024 3:26 PM
To: xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE Matt@prime-engineer.com
Subject: [External] - [Xansys] Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
Folks,
I'm using v2022R2 Mechanical and running a 3D response spectrum analysis.
From what I can tell, the Mechanical GUI does not support stress linearization for spectrum analyses. But if I load the RST in APDL, I can linearize stresses like normal. Are there any concerns about doing this in APDL? In other words, are the features unavailable in Mechanical because of some valid reason? And therefore, should I refrain from post-processing spectrum linearized stress in APDL?
Matt Ridzon, PE, MSME
Sr. Engineering Analyst
Email matt@prime-engineer.commailto:matt@prime-engineer.com
Mail 266 Main St, Burlington, VT 05401
Web
https://urldefense.com/v3/http://www.prime-engineer.com;!!KM6X6ZXWXVtZMQ
!ZVFL3CwFiZEYpUsPfH-zdbhsg_tMwGfNnIpiNsu3UgPykbia-VWBQFOpy7pXygYX6H2pVFMY9zs
ucnFawVsOzcLmULJfKPPLkw$
<https://urldefense.com/v3/http://www.prime-engineer.com/;!!KM6X6ZXWXVtZ
MQ!ZVFL3CwFiZEYpUsPfH-zdbhsg_tMwGfNnIpiNsu3UgPykbia-VWBQFOpy7pXygYX6H2pVFMY9
zsucnFawVsOzcLmULKntZteaw$ >
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Hi Matt
when I deal with truss structures, I usually combine the service loading SL with spectrum results SR by manually imposing the sign, i.e. I create more than one combination: SL+SR, SL-SR.
basically, none of them is real for a all elements but you define a kind of bounding box.
since I mostly deal with beams, the +- trick helps to capture both compression and tension cases, that are usually governing.
I'm not sure it's applicable in your case.
regards
L.
Luca Castelnuovo
luca.castelnuovo@saipem.com<mailto:luca.castelnuovo@saipem.com>
Offshore Engineering
Saipem S.p.A.
ITALY
Saipem Classification - General Use
Da: Matthew Ridzon, PE via Xansys <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org>
Inviato: martedì 2 luglio 2024 22:22
A: XANSYS Mailing List Home <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org>
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE <Matt@prime-engineer.com>
Oggetto: [Xansys] Re: [External] - Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
Folks, I had another question come to mind on this same topic. . . Has anyone in the email list run into this issue while doing ASME Boiler Code qualifications? If signs are lost during spectrum analysis, then how does one combine the spectrum
Folks, I had another question come to mind on this same topic...
Has anyone in the email list run into this issue while doing ASME Boiler Code qualifications? If signs are lost during spectrum analysis, then how does one combine the spectrum results with other service loadings to thereby calculate stress intensity for code qualifications? I can retrieve Sx, Sy, Sz, Sxy, Syz, Szx from the spectrum analysis and sum them with other non-seismic service load results. But the spectrum results have no sign(s).
-Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Ridzon, PE via Xansys <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org<mailto:xansys-temp@list.xansys.org>>
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 8:04 AM
To: Joe Metrisin <Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com<mailto:Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com>>; XANSYS Mailing List Home <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org<mailto:xansys-temp@list.xansys.org>>
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE <Matt@prime-engineer.com<mailto:Matt@prime-engineer.com>>
Subject: [Xansys] Re: [External] - Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
Thanks to everyone that responded. This was helpful information. Knowing the little bit I knew, I had a hunch those would be your responses.
-Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Metrisin <Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com<mailto:Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com>>
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 7:31 AM
To: XANSYS Mailing List Home <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org<mailto:xansys-temp@list.xansys.org>>
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE <Matt@prime-engineer.com<mailto:Matt@prime-engineer.com>>
Subject: RE: [External] - [Xansys] Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
Hi Matt,
Keep in mind that a response spectrum or random vibration analysis is statistical in nature. The stresses you get are RMSS statistical peak estimates throughout the frequency range. The SRSS process removes the sign, so any principal or von Mises stresses aren't really valid either.
ANSYS uses a Segalman approximation to estimate von Mises. It would be really questionable to use a linearized stress for anything.
Joseph T Metrisin
Structures Lead
Florida Turbine Technologies, Inc
1701 Military Tr. Suite 110 | Jupiter, FL 33458 USA
+1 (561) 427-6346 Office | +1 (772) 834-4156 Mobile
Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com<mailto:Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com>
Visit our website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kratosdefense.com__;!!I_2dWM2CSg!8glTS3WD58g5ITnKzdlyRDO-rQrA5lwTgwiPguq1qKeyLOoDOqIDvvE2fPn5gCJ5XwFAyIIoKmTZgkGS_5HLSMAzzJnepRAm$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/kratosdefense.com__;!!I_2dWM2CSg!8glTS3WD58g5ITnKzdlyRDO-rQrA5lwTgwiPguq1qKeyLOoDOqIDvvE2fPn5gCJ5XwFAyIIoKmTZgkGS_5HLSMAzzJnepRAm$>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Ridzon, PE via Xansys <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org<mailto:xansys-temp@list.xansys.org>>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2024 3:26 PM
To: xansys-temp@list.xansys.org<mailto:xansys-temp@list.xansys.org>
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE <Matt@prime-engineer.com<mailto:Matt@prime-engineer.com>>
Subject: [External] - [Xansys] Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
Folks,
I'm using v2022R2 Mechanical and running a 3D response spectrum analysis.
From what I can tell, the Mechanical GUI does not support stress linearization for spectrum analyses. But if I load the RST in APDL, I can linearize stresses like normal. Are there any concerns about doing this in APDL? In other words, are the features unavailable in Mechanical because of some valid reason? And therefore, should I refrain from post-processing spectrum linearized stress in APDL?
Matt Ridzon, PE, MSME
Sr. Engineering Analyst
Email matt@prime-engineer.com<mailto:matt@prime-engineer.com<mailto:matt@prime-engineer.com%3cmailto:matt@prime-engineer.com>>
Mail 266 Main St, Burlington, VT 05401
Web
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.prime-engineer.com__;!!KM6X6ZXWXVtZMQ<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.prime-engineer.com__;!!KM6X6ZXWXVtZMQ!ZVFL3CwFiZEYpUsPfH-zdbhsg_tMwGfNnIpiNsu3UgPykbia-VWBQFOpy7pXygYX6H2pVFMY9zsucnFawVsOzcLmULJfKPPLkw$%3chttps:/urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.prime-engineer.com/__;!!KM6X6ZXWXVtZMQ!ZVFL3CwFiZEYpUsPfH-zdbhsg_tMwGfNnIpiNsu3UgPykbia-VWBQFOpy7pXygYX6H2pVFMY9zsucnFawVsOzcLmULKntZteaw$>
!ZVFL3CwFiZEYpUsPfH-zdbhsg_tMwGfNnIpiNsu3UgPykbia-VWBQFOpy7pXygYX6H2pVFMY9zs<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.prime-engineer.com__;!!KM6X6ZXWXVtZMQ!ZVFL3CwFiZEYpUsPfH-zdbhsg_tMwGfNnIpiNsu3UgPykbia-VWBQFOpy7pXygYX6H2pVFMY9zsucnFawVsOzcLmULJfKPPLkw$%3chttps:/urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.prime-engineer.com/__;!!KM6X6ZXWXVtZMQ!ZVFL3CwFiZEYpUsPfH-zdbhsg_tMwGfNnIpiNsu3UgPykbia-VWBQFOpy7pXygYX6H2pVFMY9zsucnFawVsOzcLmULKntZteaw$>
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Luca,
Thank you! This is helpful.
I also found KB2040081 on the Customer Portal that walks through the process. And it’s very similar to what you explained with SL + SR and SL – SR.
—Matt
From: Castelnuovo Luca Luca.Castelnuovo@saipem.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2024 4:49 AM
To: XANSYS Mailing List Home xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE Matt@prime-engineer.com
Subject: R: [Xansys] Re: [External] - Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
Hi Matt
when I deal with truss structures, I usually combine the service loading SL with spectrum results SR by manually imposing the sign, i.e. I create more than one combination: SL+SR, SL-SR.
basically, none of them is real for a all elements but you define a kind of bounding box.
since I mostly deal with beams, the +- trick helps to capture both compression and tension cases, that are usually governing.
I'm not sure it's applicable in your case.
regards
L.
Luca Castelnuovo
luca.castelnuovo@saipem.com<mailto:luca.castelnuovo@saipem.com>
Offshore Engineering
Saipem S.p.A.
ITALY
Saipem Classification - General Use
Da: Matthew Ridzon, PE via Xansys <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org<mailto:xansys-temp@list.xansys.org>>
Inviato: martedì 2 luglio 2024 22:22
A: XANSYS Mailing List Home <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org<mailto:xansys-temp@list.xansys.org>>
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE <Matt@prime-engineer.com<mailto:Matt@prime-engineer.com>>
Oggetto: [Xansys] Re: [External] - Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
Folks, I had another question come to mind on this same topic. . . Has anyone in the email list run into this issue while doing ASME Boiler Code qualifications? If signs are lost during spectrum analysis, then how does one combine the spectrum
Folks, I had another question come to mind on this same topic...
Has anyone in the email list run into this issue while doing ASME Boiler Code qualifications? If signs are lost during spectrum analysis, then how does one combine the spectrum results with other service loadings to thereby calculate stress intensity for code qualifications? I can retrieve Sx, Sy, Sz, Sxy, Syz, Szx from the spectrum analysis and sum them with other non-seismic service load results. But the spectrum results have no sign(s).
-Matt
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From: Matthew Ridzon, PE via Xansys <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org<mailto:xansys-temp@list.xansys.org>>
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 8:04 AM
To: Joe Metrisin <Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com<mailto:Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com>>; XANSYS Mailing List Home <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org<mailto:xansys-temp@list.xansys.org>>
Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE <Matt@prime-engineer.com<mailto:Matt@prime-engineer.com>>
Subject: [Xansys] Re: [External] - Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
Thanks to everyone that responded. This was helpful information. Knowing the little bit I knew, I had a hunch those would be your responses.
-Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Metrisin <Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com<mailto:Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com>>
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2024 7:31 AM
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Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE <Matt@prime-engineer.com<mailto:Matt@prime-engineer.com>>
Subject: RE: [External] - [Xansys] Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
Hi Matt,
Keep in mind that a response spectrum or random vibration analysis is statistical in nature. The stresses you get are RMSS statistical peak estimates throughout the frequency range. The SRSS process removes the sign, so any principal or von Mises stresses aren't really valid either.
ANSYS uses a Segalman approximation to estimate von Mises. It would be really questionable to use a linearized stress for anything.
Joseph T Metrisin
Structures Lead
Florida Turbine Technologies, Inc
1701 Military Tr. Suite 110 | Jupiter, FL 33458 USA
+1 (561) 427-6346 Office | +1 (772) 834-4156 Mobile
Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com<mailto:Joe.Metrisin@kratosdefense.com>
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Cc: Matthew Ridzon, PE <Matt@prime-engineer.com<mailto:Matt@prime-engineer.com>>
Subject: [External] - [Xansys] Linearized Stress from Response Spectrum
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Folks,
I'm using v2022R2 Mechanical and running a 3D response spectrum analysis.
From what I can tell, the Mechanical GUI does not support stress linearization for spectrum analyses. But if I load the RST in APDL, I can linearize stresses like normal. Are there any concerns about doing this in APDL? In other words, are the features unavailable in Mechanical because of some valid reason? And therefore, should I refrain from post-processing spectrum linearized stress in APDL?
Matt Ridzon, PE, MSME
Sr. Engineering Analyst
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