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Is deleting the thermal coefficient of thermal expansion the same as setting to zero? ADPL

BD
Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US)
Tue, May 13, 2025 10:28 AM

Hi,

I believe I've seen a difference on a 3D model with SOILD45's. I googled it and got the answer below. I can't say I totally understand the difference based on the explanation. It seems like there' no difference for 2D models. Looking for some other insights.

---- from google -----

In ANSYS, deleting a thermal coefficient (like the coefficient of thermal expansion) is not the same as setting it to zero. When you delete a property, it's removed from the model entirely, meaning no thermal expansion will be considered for that material. Setting the coefficient to zero, on the other hand, indicates that the material does not expand or contract with temperature changes, but it's still considered in the analysis.
Here's a more detailed explanation:

Dan Bohlen
Senior Engineer, Stress Analysis
STAR review chairman, military structures
GE Aerospace
1 Neumann Way
Evendale, OH  45215  USA

Hi, I believe I've seen a difference on a 3D model with SOILD45's. I googled it and got the answer below. I can't say I totally understand the difference based on the explanation. It seems like there' no difference for 2D models. Looking for some other insights. ---- from google ----- In ANSYS, deleting a thermal coefficient (like the coefficient of thermal expansion) is not the same as setting it to zero. When you delete a property, it's removed from the model entirely, meaning no thermal expansion will be considered for that material. Setting the coefficient to zero, on the other hand, indicates that the material does not expand or contract with temperature changes, but it's still considered in the analysis. Here's a more detailed explanation: * Deleting the thermal coefficient:<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Deleting+the+thermal+coefficient&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * .<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Deleting+the+thermal+coefficient&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * Opens in new tab<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Deleting+the+thermal+coefficient&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * This removes the material property from the model completely. The software will not consider any thermal expansion effects for that material during the analysis. * Setting the thermal coefficient to zero:<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Setting+the+thermal+coefficient+to+zero&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * .<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Setting+the+thermal+coefficient+to+zero&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * Opens in new tab<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Setting+the+thermal+coefficient+to+zero&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * This indicates that the material does not expand or contract with temperature changes. The material will still be considered in the analysis, but its size will not change due to temperature. In essence, deleting the coefficient means it's not part of the model at all, while setting it to zero means it's present but does not affect the model's behavior due to temperature changes. Dan Bohlen Senior Engineer, Stress Analysis STAR review chairman, military structures GE Aerospace 1 Neumann Way Evendale, OH 45215 USA
MG
Mohammad Gharaibeh
Tue, May 13, 2025 12:17 PM

ChatGPT agrees on what your google search returned (see below). But for
SOLID45, could you try SOLID185 (with and without shear locking KEYOP
(2)=3)?

In ANSYS APDL (ANSYS Parametric Design Language), deleting the thermal
coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE, or ALPX, ALPY, ALPZ, etc.) is not
the same as setting it to zero. Here’s why:

  1. Deleting the CTEWhen you delete the CTE (e.g., via the MPDELE command or
    by not defining it at all), ANSYS treats the material as having no thermal
    expansion behavior defined. This means that thermal strains are not
    considered in the analysis at all for that material. It’s as if thermal
    expansion doesn’t exist.

  2. Setting CTE to Zero If you explicitly set the CTE to zero (e.g.,
    MP,ALPX,1,0.0), you’re telling ANSYS:

    “This material does have thermal expansion behavior, but the expansion
    is zero regardless of temperature change.”

In this case, thermal effects are considered, but they result in no thermal
strain or stress due to expansion.

---====
Mohammad A Gharaibeh, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Mechanical Engineering
The Hashemite University
P.O. Box 330127
Zarqa, 13133, Jordan
Tel: +962 - 5 - 390 3333 Ext. 4771
Fax: +962 - 5 - 382 6348

---====

On Tue, 13 May 2025 at 1:30 PM Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) via Xansys <
xansys-temp@list.xansys.org> wrote:

Hi,

I believe I've seen a difference on a 3D model with SOILD45's. I googled
it and got the answer below. I can't say I totally understand the
difference based on the explanation. It seems like there' no difference for
2D models. Looking for some other insights.

---- from google -----

In ANSYS, deleting a thermal coefficient (like the coefficient of thermal
expansion) is not the same as setting it to zero. When you delete a
property, it's removed from the model entirely, meaning no thermal
expansion will be considered for that material. Setting the coefficient to
zero, on the other hand, indicates that the material does not expand or
contract with temperature changes, but it's still considered in the
analysis.
Here's a more detailed explanation:

  • This indicates that the material does not expand or contract with
    temperature changes. The material will still be considered in the analysis,
    but its size will not change due to temperature.
    In essence, deleting the coefficient means it's not part of the model at
    all, while setting it to zero means it's present but does not affect the
    model's behavior due to temperature changes.

Dan Bohlen
Senior Engineer, Stress Analysis
STAR review chairman, military structures
GE Aerospace
1 Neumann Way
Evendale, OH  45215  USA

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To unsubscribe send an email to xansys-temp-leave@list.xansys.org
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Please send administrative requests such as deletion from XANSYS to
xansys-mod@tynecomp.co.uk and not to the list

ChatGPT agrees on what your google search returned (see below). But for SOLID45, could you try SOLID185 (with and without shear locking KEYOP (2)=3)? ******* In ANSYS APDL (ANSYS Parametric Design Language), deleting the thermal coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE, or ALPX, ALPY, ALPZ, etc.) is not the same as setting it to zero. Here’s why: 1. Deleting the CTEWhen you delete the CTE (e.g., via the MPDELE command or by not defining it at all), ANSYS treats the material as having no thermal expansion behavior defined. This means that thermal strains are not considered in the analysis at all for that material. It’s as if thermal expansion doesn’t exist. 2. Setting CTE to Zero If you explicitly set the CTE to zero (e.g., MP,ALPX,1,0.0), you’re telling ANSYS: - “This material does have thermal expansion behavior, but the expansion is zero regardless of temperature change.” In this case, thermal effects are considered, but they result in no thermal strain or stress due to expansion. ******* ===================================== Mohammad A Gharaibeh, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Mechanical Engineering The Hashemite University P.O. Box 330127 Zarqa, 13133, Jordan Tel: +962 - 5 - 390 3333 Ext. 4771 Fax: +962 - 5 - 382 6348 ===================================== On Tue, 13 May 2025 at 1:30 PM Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) via Xansys < xansys-temp@list.xansys.org> wrote: > Hi, > > I believe I've seen a difference on a 3D model with SOILD45's. I googled > it and got the answer below. I can't say I totally understand the > difference based on the explanation. It seems like there' no difference for > 2D models. Looking for some other insights. > > ---- from google ----- > > In ANSYS, deleting a thermal coefficient (like the coefficient of thermal > expansion) is not the same as setting it to zero. When you delete a > property, it's removed from the model entirely, meaning no thermal > expansion will be considered for that material. Setting the coefficient to > zero, on the other hand, indicates that the material does not expand or > contract with temperature changes, but it's still considered in the > analysis. > Here's a more detailed explanation: > > * Deleting the thermal coefficient:< > https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Deleting+the+thermal+coefficient&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3 > > > * .< > https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Deleting+the+thermal+coefficient&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3 > > > * Opens in new tab< > https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Deleting+the+thermal+coefficient&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3 > > > * This removes the material property from the model completely. The > software will not consider any thermal expansion effects for that material > during the analysis. > * Setting the thermal coefficient to zero:< > https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Setting+the+thermal+coefficient+to+zero&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3 > > > * .< > https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Setting+the+thermal+coefficient+to+zero&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3 > > > * Opens in new tab< > https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Setting+the+thermal+coefficient+to+zero&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3 > > > * This indicates that the material does not expand or contract with > temperature changes. The material will still be considered in the analysis, > but its size will not change due to temperature. > In essence, deleting the coefficient means it's not part of the model at > all, while setting it to zero means it's present but does not affect the > model's behavior due to temperature changes. > > > Dan Bohlen > Senior Engineer, Stress Analysis > STAR review chairman, military structures > GE Aerospace > 1 Neumann Way > Evendale, OH 45215 USA > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Xansys mailing list -- xansys-temp@list.xansys.org > To unsubscribe send an email to xansys-temp-leave@list.xansys.org > If you are receiving too many emails from XANSYS please consider changing > account settings to Digest mode which will send a single email per day. > > Please send administrative requests such as deletion from XANSYS to > xansys-mod@tynecomp.co.uk and not to the list >
MR
Matthew Ridzon, PE
Tue, May 13, 2025 12:20 PM

I didn't open all of the links.  However, my intuition tells me that deleting it will cause the model to behave the same as if it was zero.  In both cases, my gut tells me that the model would not expand thermally at all.  So I don't know why Google would insinuate they may be different situations (but Abraham Lincoln said everything on the internet is pure truth...  Haha)

I suspect this could be easily solved with a small test model.  Build a cube, fix one side, apply the temperature, and check the total displacement.  In both cases, I believe you'll see zero displacement.

-Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) via Xansys xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2025 6:29 AM
To: XANSYS Mailing List Home xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Cc: Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) dan.bohlen@geaerospace.com
Subject: [Xansys] Is deleting the thermal coefficient of thermal expansion the same as setting to zero? ADPL

Hi,

I believe I've seen a difference on a 3D model with SOILD45's. I googled it and got the answer below. I can't say I totally understand the difference based on the explanation. It seems like there' no difference for 2D models. Looking for some other insights.

---- from google -----

In ANSYS, deleting a thermal coefficient (like the coefficient of thermal expansion) is not the same as setting it to zero. When you delete a property, it's removed from the model entirely, meaning no thermal expansion will be considered for that material. Setting the coefficient to zero, on the other hand, indicates that the material does not expand or contract with temperature changes, but it's still considered in the analysis.
Here's a more detailed explanation:

Dan Bohlen
Senior Engineer, Stress Analysis
STAR review chairman, military structures GE Aerospace
1 Neumann Way
Evendale, OH  45215  USA

Xansys mailing list -- xansys-temp@list.xansys.org To unsubscribe send an email to xansys-temp-leave@list.xansys.org If you are receiving too many emails from XANSYS please consider changing account settings to Digest mode which will send a single email per day.

Please send administrative requests such as deletion from XANSYS to xansys-mod@tynecomp.co.uk and not to the list

I didn't open all of the links. However, my intuition tells me that deleting it will cause the model to behave the same as if it was zero. In both cases, my gut tells me that the model would not expand thermally at all. So I don't know why Google would insinuate they may be different situations (but Abraham Lincoln said everything on the internet is pure truth... Haha) I suspect this could be easily solved with a small test model. Build a cube, fix one side, apply the temperature, and check the total displacement. In both cases, I believe you'll see zero displacement. -Matt -----Original Message----- From: Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) via Xansys <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2025 6:29 AM To: XANSYS Mailing List Home <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org> Cc: Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) <dan.bohlen@geaerospace.com> Subject: [Xansys] Is deleting the thermal coefficient of thermal expansion the same as setting to zero? ADPL Hi, I believe I've seen a difference on a 3D model with SOILD45's. I googled it and got the answer below. I can't say I totally understand the difference based on the explanation. It seems like there' no difference for 2D models. Looking for some other insights. ---- from google ----- In ANSYS, deleting a thermal coefficient (like the coefficient of thermal expansion) is not the same as setting it to zero. When you delete a property, it's removed from the model entirely, meaning no thermal expansion will be considered for that material. Setting the coefficient to zero, on the other hand, indicates that the material does not expand or contract with temperature changes, but it's still considered in the analysis. Here's a more detailed explanation: * Deleting the thermal coefficient:<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Deleting+the+thermal+coefficient&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * .<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Deleting+the+thermal+coefficient&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * Opens in new tab<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Deleting+the+thermal+coefficient&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * This removes the material property from the model completely. The software will not consider any thermal expansion effects for that material during the analysis. * Setting the thermal coefficient to zero:<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Setting+the+thermal+coefficient+to+zero&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * .<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Setting+the+thermal+coefficient+to+zero&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * Opens in new tab<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Setting+the+thermal+coefficient+to+zero&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * This indicates that the material does not expand or contract with temperature changes. The material will still be considered in the analysis, but its size will not change due to temperature. In essence, deleting the coefficient means it's not part of the model at all, while setting it to zero means it's present but does not affect the model's behavior due to temperature changes. Dan Bohlen Senior Engineer, Stress Analysis STAR review chairman, military structures GE Aerospace 1 Neumann Way Evendale, OH 45215 USA _______________________________________________ Xansys mailing list -- xansys-temp@list.xansys.org To unsubscribe send an email to xansys-temp-leave@list.xansys.org If you are receiving too many emails from XANSYS please consider changing account settings to Digest mode which will send a single email per day. Please send administrative requests such as deletion from XANSYS to xansys-mod@tynecomp.co.uk and not to the list
BD
Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US)
Tue, May 13, 2025 12:25 PM

I will try your suggestion.

Still not sure why I get different answers based on 1 and 2 below.

Also - when I've done the same on a 2D model with SOLID42's I do get the same results.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Mohammad Gharaibeh via Xansys xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2025 8:18 AM
To: XANSYS Mailing List Home xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Cc: Mohammad Gharaibeh mgharai1@binghamton.edu
Subject: [Xansys] Re: [External Email] Is deleting the thermal coefficient of thermal expansion the same as setting to zero? ADPL

ChatGPT agrees on what your google search returned (see below). But for SOLID45, could you try SOLID185 (with and without shear locking KEYOP (2)=3)?

In ANSYS APDL (ANSYS Parametric Design Language), deleting the thermal coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE, or ALPX, ALPY, ALPZ, etc.) is not the same as setting it to zero. Here’s why:

  1. Deleting the CTEWhen you delete the CTE (e.g., via the MPDELE command or by not defining it at all), ANSYS treats the material as having no thermal expansion behavior defined. This means that thermal strains are not considered in the analysis at all for that material. It’s as if thermal expansion doesn’t exist.

  2. Setting CTE to Zero If you explicitly set the CTE to zero (e.g., MP,ALPX,1,0.0), you’re telling ANSYS:

    “This material does have thermal expansion behavior, but the expansion
    is zero regardless of temperature change.”

In this case, thermal effects are considered, but they result in no thermal strain or stress due to expansion.

---====
Mohammad A Gharaibeh, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Mechanical Engineering
The Hashemite University
P.O. Box 330127
Zarqa, 13133, Jordan
Tel: +962 - 5 - 390 3333 Ext. 4771
Fax: +962 - 5 - 382 6348

---====

On Tue, 13 May 2025 at 1:30 PM Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) via Xansys < xansys-temp@list.xansys.org> wrote:

Hi,

I believe I've seen a difference on a 3D model with SOILD45's. I
googled it and got the answer below. I can't say I totally understand
the difference based on the explanation. It seems like there' no
difference for 2D models. Looking for some other insights.

---- from google -----

In ANSYS, deleting a thermal coefficient (like the coefficient of
thermal
expansion) is not the same as setting it to zero. When you delete a
property, it's removed from the model entirely, meaning no thermal
expansion will be considered for that material. Setting the
coefficient to zero, on the other hand, indicates that the material
does not expand or contract with temperature changes, but it's still
considered in the analysis.
Here's a more detailed explanation:

  • Deleting the thermal coefficient:<
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  • .<
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  • Opens in new tab<
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  • This removes the material property from the model completely. The
    software will not consider any thermal expansion effects for that
    material during the analysis.
  • Setting the thermal coefficient to zero:<
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  • .<
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  • Opens in new tab<
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  • This indicates that the material does not expand or contract with
    temperature changes. The material will still be considered in the
    analysis, but its size will not change due to temperature.
    In essence, deleting the coefficient means it's not part of the model
    at all, while setting it to zero means it's present but does not
    affect the model's behavior due to temperature changes.

Dan Bohlen
Senior Engineer, Stress Analysis
STAR review chairman, military structures GE Aerospace
1 Neumann Way
Evendale, OH  45215  USA

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I will try your suggestion. Still not sure why I get different answers based on 1 and 2 below. Also - when I've done the same on a 2D model with SOLID42's I do get the same results. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Mohammad Gharaibeh via Xansys <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2025 8:18 AM To: XANSYS Mailing List Home <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org> Cc: Mohammad Gharaibeh <mgharai1@binghamton.edu> Subject: [Xansys] Re: [External Email] Is deleting the thermal coefficient of thermal expansion the same as setting to zero? ADPL ChatGPT agrees on what your google search returned (see below). But for SOLID45, could you try SOLID185 (with and without shear locking KEYOP (2)=3)? ******* In ANSYS APDL (ANSYS Parametric Design Language), deleting the thermal coefficient of thermal expansion (CTE, or ALPX, ALPY, ALPZ, etc.) is not the same as setting it to zero. Here’s why: 1. Deleting the CTEWhen you delete the CTE (e.g., via the MPDELE command or by not defining it at all), ANSYS treats the material as having no thermal expansion behavior defined. This means that thermal strains are not considered in the analysis at all for that material. It’s as if thermal expansion doesn’t exist. 2. Setting CTE to Zero If you explicitly set the CTE to zero (e.g., MP,ALPX,1,0.0), you’re telling ANSYS: - “This material does have thermal expansion behavior, but the expansion is zero regardless of temperature change.” In this case, thermal effects are considered, but they result in no thermal strain or stress due to expansion. ******* ===================================== Mohammad A Gharaibeh, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of Mechanical Engineering The Hashemite University P.O. Box 330127 Zarqa, 13133, Jordan Tel: +962 - 5 - 390 3333 Ext. 4771 Fax: +962 - 5 - 382 6348 ===================================== On Tue, 13 May 2025 at 1:30 PM Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) via Xansys < xansys-temp@list.xansys.org> wrote: > Hi, > > I believe I've seen a difference on a 3D model with SOILD45's. I > googled it and got the answer below. I can't say I totally understand > the difference based on the explanation. It seems like there' no > difference for 2D models. Looking for some other insights. > > ---- from google ----- > > In ANSYS, deleting a thermal coefficient (like the coefficient of > thermal > expansion) is not the same as setting it to zero. When you delete a > property, it's removed from the model entirely, meaning no thermal > expansion will be considered for that material. Setting the > coefficient to zero, on the other hand, indicates that the material > does not expand or contract with temperature changes, but it's still > considered in the analysis. > Here's a more detailed explanation: > > * Deleting the thermal coefficient:< > https://usg02.safelinks.protection.office365.us/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww > .google.com%2Fsearch%3Fsca_esv%3Ddb94c43514cdc207%26rlz%3D1C1GCEB_enUS > 1099US1099%26cs%3D0%26sxsrf%3DAHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%253A1 > 747132058221%26q%3DDeleting%2Bthe%2Bthermal%2Bcoefficient%26sa%3DX%26v > ed%3D2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD%26mstk%3DAUtExfBNmU > KzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7Og > bnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZ > p98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRli > L9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzP > sxeXZMYG1mDMErzg%26csui%3D3&data=05%7C02%7Cdan.bohlen%40geaerospace.co > m%7Cc47b28b5f99d48a8905008dd9218a219%7C86b871edf0e741269bf45ee5cf19e25 > 6%7C0%7C0%7C638827356683785991%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGk > iOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyf > Q%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vN10RgGkoGu0qi2QPVZ9HWNqOxbSuDa6fFZSj52h9mg > %3D&reserved=0 > > > * .< > https://usg02.safelinks.protection.office365.us/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww > .google.com%2Fsearch%3Fsca_esv%3Ddb94c43514cdc207%26rlz%3D1C1GCEB_enUS > 1099US1099%26cs%3D0%26sxsrf%3DAHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%253A1 > 747132058221%26q%3DDeleting%2Bthe%2Bthermal%2Bcoefficient%26sa%3DX%26v > ed%3D2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD%26mstk%3DAUtExfBNmU > KzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7Og > bnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZ > p98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRli > L9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzP > sxeXZMYG1mDMErzg%26csui%3D3&data=05%7C02%7Cdan.bohlen%40geaerospace.co > m%7Cc47b28b5f99d48a8905008dd9218a219%7C86b871edf0e741269bf45ee5cf19e25 > 6%7C0%7C0%7C638827356683801669%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGk > iOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyf > Q%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=My%2FMkQtlMdYm2nmYabP%2BB%2Fg3cgIBCscefYT5Z > o%2FFWko%3D&reserved=0 > > > * Opens in new tab< > https://usg02.safelinks.protection.office365.us/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww > .google.com%2Fsearch%3Fsca_esv%3Ddb94c43514cdc207%26rlz%3D1C1GCEB_enUS > 1099US1099%26cs%3D0%26sxsrf%3DAHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%253A1 > 747132058221%26q%3DDeleting%2Bthe%2Bthermal%2Bcoefficient%26sa%3DX%26v > ed%3D2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD%26mstk%3DAUtExfBNmU > KzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7Og > bnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZ > p98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRli > L9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzP > sxeXZMYG1mDMErzg%26csui%3D3&data=05%7C02%7Cdan.bohlen%40geaerospace.co > m%7Cc47b28b5f99d48a8905008dd9218a219%7C86b871edf0e741269bf45ee5cf19e25 > 6%7C0%7C0%7C638827356683810945%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGk > iOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyf > Q%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oPbm3tlZkEmW2gCLjCSJozq%2FFUl9yTI2AFmPuEVev > 0k%3D&reserved=0 > > > * This removes the material property from the model completely. The > software will not consider any thermal expansion effects for that > material during the analysis. > * Setting the thermal coefficient to zero:< > https://usg02.safelinks.protection.office365.us/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww > .google.com%2Fsearch%3Fsca_esv%3Ddb94c43514cdc207%26rlz%3D1C1GCEB_enUS > 1099US1099%26cs%3D0%26sxsrf%3DAHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%253A1 > 747132058221%26q%3DSetting%2Bthe%2Bthermal%2Bcoefficient%2Bto%2Bzero%2 > 6sa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD%26mstk%3 > DAUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBok > STb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzY > ecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7 > NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_A > c9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg%26csui%3D3&data=05%7C02%7Cdan.bohlen%40gea > erospace.com%7Cc47b28b5f99d48a8905008dd9218a219%7C86b871edf0e741269bf4 > 5ee5cf19e256%7C0%7C0%7C638827356683819815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJF > bXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbC > IsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Lac0pNervmkf%2BSVaAPvc662f5o%2B2 > 7qXEFNUuM9VZETk%3D&reserved=0 > > > * .< > https://usg02.safelinks.protection.office365.us/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww > .google.com%2Fsearch%3Fsca_esv%3Ddb94c43514cdc207%26rlz%3D1C1GCEB_enUS > 1099US1099%26cs%3D0%26sxsrf%3DAHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%253A1 > 747132058221%26q%3DSetting%2Bthe%2Bthermal%2Bcoefficient%2Bto%2Bzero%2 > 6sa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD%26mstk%3 > DAUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBok > STb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzY > ecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7 > NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_A > c9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg%26csui%3D3&data=05%7C02%7Cdan.bohlen%40gea > erospace.com%7Cc47b28b5f99d48a8905008dd9218a219%7C86b871edf0e741269bf4 > 5ee5cf19e256%7C0%7C0%7C638827356683830644%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJF > bXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbC > IsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Im%2Bl8tDeZBuCmAJI1S6AKJIFrlpOZj > roCgBPBD4ahsE%3D&reserved=0 > > > * Opens in new tab< > https://usg02.safelinks.protection.office365.us/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww > .google.com%2Fsearch%3Fsca_esv%3Ddb94c43514cdc207%26rlz%3D1C1GCEB_enUS > 1099US1099%26cs%3D0%26sxsrf%3DAHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%253A1 > 747132058221%26q%3DSetting%2Bthe%2Bthermal%2Bcoefficient%2Bto%2Bzero%2 > 6sa%3DX%26ved%3D2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD%26mstk%3 > DAUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBok > STb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzY > ecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7 > NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_A > c9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg%26csui%3D3&data=05%7C02%7Cdan.bohlen%40gea > erospace.com%7Cc47b28b5f99d48a8905008dd9218a219%7C86b871edf0e741269bf4 > 5ee5cf19e256%7C0%7C0%7C638827356683839280%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJF > bXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbC > IsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KQAPjsvLiH87Ab8fdtAozwE5t7HddiE9 > 7xCayS2shKs%3D&reserved=0 > > > * This indicates that the material does not expand or contract with > temperature changes. The material will still be considered in the > analysis, but its size will not change due to temperature. > In essence, deleting the coefficient means it's not part of the model > at all, while setting it to zero means it's present but does not > affect the model's behavior due to temperature changes. > > > Dan Bohlen > Senior Engineer, Stress Analysis > STAR review chairman, military structures GE Aerospace > 1 Neumann Way > Evendale, OH 45215 USA > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Xansys mailing list -- xansys-temp@list.xansys.org > To unsubscribe send an email to xansys-temp-leave@list.xansys.org > If you are receiving too many emails from XANSYS please consider changing > account settings to Digest mode which will send a single email per day. > > Please send administrative requests such as deletion from XANSYS to > xansys-mod@tynecomp.co.uk and not to the list > _______________________________________________ Xansys mailing list -- xansys-temp@list.xansys.org To unsubscribe send an email to xansys-temp-leave@list.xansys.org If you are receiving too many emails from XANSYS please consider changing account settings to Digest mode which will send a single email per day. Please send administrative requests such as deletion from XANSYS to xansys-mod@tynecomp.co.uk and not to the list
BD
Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US)
Tue, May 13, 2025 12:26 PM

I did test.  On SOLID 45's there was a difference.  2D SOILD42's not difference....

-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Ridzon, PE Matt@prime-engineer.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2025 8:20 AM
To: XANSYS Mailing List Home xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Cc: Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) dan.bohlen@geaerospace.com
Subject: RE: Is deleting the thermal coefficient of thermal expansion the same as setting to zero? ADPL

I didn't open all of the links.  However, my intuition tells me that deleting it will cause the model to behave the same as if it was zero.  In both cases, my gut tells me that the model would not expand thermally at all.  So I don't know why Google would insinuate they may be different situations (but Abraham Lincoln said everything on the internet is pure truth...  Haha)

I suspect this could be easily solved with a small test model.  Build a cube, fix one side, apply the temperature, and check the total displacement.  In both cases, I believe you'll see zero displacement.

-Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) via Xansys xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2025 6:29 AM
To: XANSYS Mailing List Home xansys-temp@list.xansys.org
Cc: Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) dan.bohlen@geaerospace.com
Subject: [Xansys] Is deleting the thermal coefficient of thermal expansion the same as setting to zero? ADPL

Hi,

I believe I've seen a difference on a 3D model with SOILD45's. I googled it and got the answer below. I can't say I totally understand the difference based on the explanation. It seems like there' no difference for 2D models. Looking for some other insights.

---- from google -----

In ANSYS, deleting a thermal coefficient (like the coefficient of thermal expansion) is not the same as setting it to zero. When you delete a property, it's removed from the model entirely, meaning no thermal expansion will be considered for that material. Setting the coefficient to zero, on the other hand, indicates that the material does not expand or contract with temperature changes, but it's still considered in the analysis.
Here's a more detailed explanation:

Dan Bohlen
Senior Engineer, Stress Analysis
STAR review chairman, military structures GE Aerospace
1 Neumann Way
Evendale, OH  45215  USA

Xansys mailing list -- xansys-temp@list.xansys.org To unsubscribe send an email to xansys-temp-leave@list.xansys.org If you are receiving too many emails from XANSYS please consider changing account settings to Digest mode which will send a single email per day.

Please send administrative requests such as deletion from XANSYS to xansys-mod@tynecomp.co.uk and not to the list

I did test. On SOLID 45's there was a difference. 2D SOILD42's not difference.... -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Ridzon, PE <Matt@prime-engineer.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2025 8:20 AM To: XANSYS Mailing List Home <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org> Cc: Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) <dan.bohlen@geaerospace.com> Subject: RE: Is deleting the thermal coefficient of thermal expansion the same as setting to zero? ADPL I didn't open all of the links. However, my intuition tells me that deleting it will cause the model to behave the same as if it was zero. In both cases, my gut tells me that the model would not expand thermally at all. So I don't know why Google would insinuate they may be different situations (but Abraham Lincoln said everything on the internet is pure truth... Haha) I suspect this could be easily solved with a small test model. Build a cube, fix one side, apply the temperature, and check the total displacement. In both cases, I believe you'll see zero displacement. -Matt -----Original Message----- From: Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) via Xansys <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2025 6:29 AM To: XANSYS Mailing List Home <xansys-temp@list.xansys.org> Cc: Bohlen, Dan (GE Aerospace, US) <dan.bohlen@geaerospace.com> Subject: [Xansys] Is deleting the thermal coefficient of thermal expansion the same as setting to zero? ADPL Hi, I believe I've seen a difference on a 3D model with SOILD45's. I googled it and got the answer below. I can't say I totally understand the difference based on the explanation. It seems like there' no difference for 2D models. Looking for some other insights. ---- from google ----- In ANSYS, deleting a thermal coefficient (like the coefficient of thermal expansion) is not the same as setting it to zero. When you delete a property, it's removed from the model entirely, meaning no thermal expansion will be considered for that material. Setting the coefficient to zero, on the other hand, indicates that the material does not expand or contract with temperature changes, but it's still considered in the analysis. Here's a more detailed explanation: * Deleting the thermal coefficient:<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Deleting+the+thermal+coefficient&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * .<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Deleting+the+thermal+coefficient&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * Opens in new tab<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Deleting+the+thermal+coefficient&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIDhAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * This removes the material property from the model completely. The software will not consider any thermal expansion effects for that material during the analysis. * Setting the thermal coefficient to zero:<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Setting+the+thermal+coefficient+to+zero&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * .<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Setting+the+thermal+coefficient+to+zero&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * Opens in new tab<https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=db94c43514cdc207&rlz=1C1GCEB_enUS1099US1099&cs=0&sxsrf=AHTn8zpGA3ydDbsZRBj4DEWL6Pgvkhk2uw%3A1747132058221&q=Setting+the+thermal+coefficient+to+zero&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiLv7qNnqCNAxVmvokEHRwHKiYQ4eYNegQIFRAD&mstk=AUtExfBNmUKzOpSEvhOtnPzwCR8yp7ZeNRAQiOrZ_rmktI46HGsDCRe4-uKfhYMm4iBokSTb2IqdB7OgbnxxAhFuMfEwnmVmKz_OZ_MGt1NIcFCuZItivJdKMNM-K4I6aqfKuwDBmzYecEjg0WGykZp98p1Jw3VD03ySrPpVb7fk-o2ZF-NOuDKOGv67LBsj0rTqy0eYRNDLrZXV7NM8qKMEGRliL9n5ocAChMwZlTKRDHQZgqboaPEi6lzURfjE33WGe2DKB_rNBv0ZnIFJj_Ac9RBWPaZYzPsxeXZMYG1mDMErzg&csui=3> * This indicates that the material does not expand or contract with temperature changes. The material will still be considered in the analysis, but its size will not change due to temperature. In essence, deleting the coefficient means it's not part of the model at all, while setting it to zero means it's present but does not affect the model's behavior due to temperature changes. Dan Bohlen Senior Engineer, Stress Analysis STAR review chairman, military structures GE Aerospace 1 Neumann Way Evendale, OH 45215 USA _______________________________________________ Xansys mailing list -- xansys-temp@list.xansys.org To unsubscribe send an email to xansys-temp-leave@list.xansys.org If you are receiving too many emails from XANSYS please consider changing account settings to Digest mode which will send a single email per day. Please send administrative requests such as deletion from XANSYS to xansys-mod@tynecomp.co.uk and not to the list
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